Spectra Ward
Asked by indieinside 4 months ago
does this mean that i can no longer add aura cards once it is on the creature?
Gidgetimer says... #2
Spectra Ward specifically doesn't cause Auras to be removed. When cast auras target, so this will keep you from casting an aura to add it to something already enchanted with Spectra Ward however if you can attach the aura without targeting (via blinking or something like Bruna, Light of Alabaster's ability) you can still add more.
February 10, 2024 11:46 p.m.
Spectra Ward says it doesn't cause Aura's to be removed, it doesn't make it legal for new auras to enchant the creature. In order for an effect like Replenish or Bruna, Light of Alabaster to attach an aura to a permanent, it must be legal to do so. Because Spectra Ward grants protection, it is not legal to attach a new aura to the creature. The clause on Spectra Ward only stops the state based action that causes auras to fall off, not the fact that the creature is an invalid choice for enchanting.
303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player's control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn't specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura's enchant ability and any other applicable effects.
702.16n Some Auras both give the enchanted creature protection from a quality and say "this effect doesn't remove" either that specific Aura or all Auras. This means that the specified Auras aren’t put into their owners' graveyards as a state-based action. If the creature has other instances of protection from the same quality, those instances affect Auras as normal.
February 12, 2024 11:45 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
It does make it legal for new auras to enchant the creature. Because the protection offered by Spectra Ward doesn't remove auras, there is no effect making it illegal for the aura to be attached. The clause is saying that 702.16c doesn't apply to auras, not carving out a narrow exception to 704.5m.
702.16c A permanent or player with protection can’t be enchanted by Auras that have the stated quality. Such Auras attached to the permanent or player with protection will be put into their owners’ graveyards as a state-based action.
February 12, 2024 1:19 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
Now that I'm not on lunch and have time to do a deep dive into the rules in order to better illustrate my point, the case you are describing is found on a card and it is worded differently than Spectra Ward is. Benevolent Blessing states "this effect doesn’t remove Auras and Equipment you control that are already attached to it" and we can deduce that this is the wording used if the exception to 702.16c (and in this case 702.16d) only applies to a certain subset of auras/equipment. There is even a rule applying to this one card (702.16p) and it, unlike 702.16n, specifies "Other permanents with the stated quality can’t become attached to the creature".
702.16p One Aura (Benevolent Blessing) gives the enchanted creature protection from a quality and says the effect doesn’t remove certain permanents that are “already attached to” that creature. This means that, when the protection effect starts to apply, any objects with the stated quality that are already attached to that creature (including the Aura giving that creature protection) will not be put into their owners’ graveyards as a state-based action. Other permanents with the stated quality can’t become attached to the creature. If the creature has other instances of protection from the same quality, those instances affect attached permanents as normal.
February 12, 2024 6:27 p.m.
Spectra Ward specifies "this effect does not remove" it says nothing about allowing new objects to become attached. Rule 702.16n clearly states what that text means, and only states that it applies to the state based action. There is no reason to assume it would secretly mean that the creature can receive further enchantments.
Benevolent Blessing was printed 6 years later and required a new rule to be written, so it's not surprising they would add superfluous text to make the card clearer, even if the rules didn't need that text. You'll notice that 702.16n only applies to not removing auras, and must either apply to just the source of the protection or all auras. 702.16p applies to equipment as well as auras, and applies only to ones you control. Those differences were enough to require a new rule, so it makes sense they included the clarifying text when writing the rule. You're suggesting we read intent as if the rules were written one after another by the same author when in fact they were written decades apart by completely different people. We must read the rules as written, and as written they do not allow for new enchantments, regardless of that clause.
February 13, 2024 10:16 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
I didn't want to say "it works the way I am explaining because the rules manager says it works that way", but it works the way I am explaining because the rules manager says it works that way. Here is a twitter post of someone asking Jess Dunks (the current rules manager) about if a 2014 ruling from Matt Tabak (the rules manager at the time) is still correct.
https://twitter.com/XNeswii/status/1490840418388701186
That question is 2 years old, but 702.16n and 702.16p still have the same text. In the absence of anything with a similar level of authority contradicting it I am going to say it hasn't changed. Let me know if you can't see the entire twitter thread because X is a dumpster fire and makes you log in to see threads. I'll link each post if necessary.
Also in regards to "You're suggesting we read intent as if the rules were written one after another by the same author when in fact they were written decades apart by completely different people." The CR is written by committee and revised every release. So, while the same person may not have authored both rules, both rules have been reviewed and published by the same group. The current wording of 702.16n and 702.16p were actually released in the same revision, with the Commander Legends release.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210119220041/https://vensersjournal.com/ZNR-CMR
February 13, 2024 5:47 p.m.
indieinside says... #8
i am reading a lot of jargon. can i or can i not add auras to the creature after this card is played?
February 13, 2024 9:32 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #9
You CAN add auras to a creature enchanted with Spectra Ward provided those auras are not cast as spells and therefore do not target.
Tabak said in 2014 "S(pectra)W(ard) doesn't remove Auras, so as long as you're getting the Aura on w/o targeting, that's fine."
Dunks said in 2022 when asked about this ruling "looks right to me"
February 14, 2024 6:06 a.m.
How about some specific scenarios? From basic to advanced:
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I have Eager Cadet enchanted with Spectra Ward. I cast Holy Strength targeting Eager Cadet. What happens?
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I have Eager Cadet enchanted with Spectra Ward and Glory Seeker enchanted with Holy Strength. I cast Aura Finesse to move the Holy Strength to Eager Cadet. What happens?
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I have Eager Cadet enchanted with Spectra Ward, Glory Seeker enchanted with Holy Strength, and Bruna, Light of Alabaster. I attack with Bruna, and move Spectra Ward and Holy Strength onto her. What happens?
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Opponent casts Warp World. I reveal Eager Cadet, Spectra Ward, and Holy Strength. I put down the Eager Cadet, then put Spectra Ward and Holy Strength on it as Warp World resolves. What happens?
February 14, 2024 11:48 a.m.
5.Same setup as #3. I have Eager Cadet enchanted with Spectra Ward, Glory Seeker enchanted with Holy Strength, and Bruna, Light of Alabaster. I attack with Bruna, and move only Spectra Ward onto her. Next turn, I attack with her again, and move Holy Strength onto her. What happens?
February 14, 2024 11:59 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #12
I am going to add a scenario 6 and 7 and then answer all of them. I am also going to use an explanation for 3 and 4 that is different from 5-7 despite both reasons being valid explanations just in case there is still contention.
6 Light-Paws, Emperor's Voice on battlefield. Cast Spectra Ward targeting Lightpaws. Fetch Holy Strength and attach it to Lightpaws. What happens?
7 Light-Paws, Emperor's Voice enchanted with Spectra Ward and All That Glitters on battlefield. Cast Spirit Mantle targeting Eager Cadet. Fetch Holy Strength and attach it to Lightpaws. What happens?
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Can not cast spell because protection prevents Holy Strength from targeting.
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Can not cast spell because protection prevents Aura Finesse from targeting.
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Auras are attached at same time, so Spectra Ward's protection doesn't matter. And both auras stay attached.
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Auras are attached at same time, so Spectra Ward's protection doesn't matter. And both auras stay attached.
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Because the protection from Spectra Ward doesn't remove auras and you are not targeting, you are able to move both auras in that order and both stay attached.
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Because the protection from Spectra Ward doesn't remove auras and you are not targeting, you are able to attach Holy Strength and it stay attached.
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Because the protection from Spectra Ward doesn't remove auras and you are not targeting, you are able to attach Holy Strength and it stay attached.
Neotrup says... #1
Protection does prevent enchanting/equipping, as well as targeting, so additional colored auras will not be able to enchant the creature.
February 10, 2024 1:40 p.m.