How do you deal, if you deal, with building a deck that's very popular/not your original idea?
General forum
Posted on Jan. 11, 2023, 12:32 a.m. by Kazierts
I know this question might seem dumb, and rather pointless, but it's something Ive always struggled with a lot , probably due to my GAD (general anxiety disorder).
If you look at my lists, they are mostly janky stuff that a lot of people don't even want to play with, such as my Bant deck built around Stoic Angel and my 4C Dragons (which is unusual since most lists gravitate towards monored), specially my most beloved list, Monoblack Infect.
However, if I want to play something popular I feel the need to adapt it in order to play it, otherwise I feel like I'm prohibited to play. As example of this is my Korvold deck. Everyone knows he's incredibly busted, but he also seems like a very fun commander. The way I used to convince myself to play him was to build a deck with just pauper legal (have been printed as a common at least once) cards. Another example was Mill. I had a list I was working on, way before Eldraine and Zendikar Resurgent, but as soon as Mill became a somewhat viable strategy, I completely lost interest in the strategy and never tried building this archetype, casual or not.
I don't know if I looking for advices exactly. I just want to hear people's opinions on the matter and if anyone else goes through this.
wallisface says... #3
I kindof get where you're coming from, even though my own experience differs slightly (I play very competitive modern). For me personally I like to add my own take on a list - I'll often look through several other similar competitive lists before making something that feels "my own". Sometimes the end product is very different from known meta lists, while other times it's ridiculously close to an existing deck. There's also been times where my "brew" has ended up becoming part of the meta down the line.
The amount of work and time I've invested into my decks, for me at least, make them feel "mine", even if some of them are very-close to the meta-defined version of that deck. One of my favourite times was when a friend also tried making an Esper-Taxes deck and we could bounce ideas off one-another.
I guess my point is, you've got to construct something your comfortable with, but then find a reason to stick-with it. Just because a strategy is competitive doesn't mean you can't put your own spin on it. And, regardless of whether a deck is net-decked or not, many of the more-complicated decks to pilot (this includes mill) are hugely rewarding when you've stuck-with it for a long time, learning the various nuances.
Strive to become "the expert" at the deck your piloting, and imo you'll quickly find that it matters a lot less how many other people are playing it.
!!! Disclaimer that goes back on everything I just said !!!
A lot of budget decks in particular (as well as very linear decks of all price ranges) often have a much shallower level of depth to them, wherein its usually the case that anyone can just pick up the deck and play it as well as it could be. There's probably a lot less reward to be had in knowing the ins-and-outs of such brews. And so my whole comment might be pointless depending on what you like playing. But milage may vary, and in any case I hope you find your "happy place" with deck construction.
January 11, 2023 2:52 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
I'm definitely not the target audience for the question since I care not at all how popular the deck is or if I am using someone else's list. This is especially true for competitive formats. However; if it doesn't derail the discussion, I would like to ask anyone who would be willing to share why they feel like they need to have brewed a deck to play it.
January 11, 2023 6:55 a.m.
wallisface says... #5
So i don’t necessarily feel like i have to brew, though i often prefer it, for a few reasons:
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I’m fairly anti-red and try avoid including it in decks at all costs. I’m also quite fussy about including cards where i don’t like the art.
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Everyone has their own personal play-style preferences, and I like gearing the deck towards my own strengths/enjoyment.
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Everyones local meta will differ from internet consensus. Gearing a deck towards being strong in your own local meta is optimal, and understandably requires deviating from the “net deck”.
So basically a mix of personal preference intertwined with actually understanding and playing-to a specific meta.
January 11, 2023 2:49 p.m.
wallisface says... #6
Imo the only reasonable reason to netdeck and then make 0 changes is if your entire local meta is doing the same (and also decks are relatively equally represented compared to net decks).
January 11, 2023 2:51 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #7
It seems like the actual problem is people complaining at you about why you have a certain deck... which seems suspect or weird. If someone pesters you for playing a deck, I expect it’s either because it’s a very powerful deck and maybe bulldozed the table or because the person in question is generally miserable. Both of those things can be handled internally. You can be in control of that. If the deck was a little too strong for the group you can apologize or make a comment to grease-the-social-skids and move on. If it’s a person who’s generally bitter and furious you’d probably be better off escaping that table, as he (it’s always been a he, in my experience) will only be happy when he’s the one doing the bulldozing. Take comfort in the fact that you’ve got the power to handle those two options. And also (please) be patient with old dopes like me who accidentally type themselves into a corner and realize that they’re typing out a ham-fisted motivational poster. Live laugh love. Or something. Sorry.
January 11, 2023 2:52 p.m.
wallisface says... #8
I may be misreading but i don’t think anyone is complaining at the OP for their deck choices - it’s more the OP having their own internal conflict with what they play.
January 11, 2023 6:38 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #9
wallisface thank you for the insights. I guess I never really considered tuning to a local meta to be in any way brewing the deck. Maybe I shouldn't make a differentiation between tuning and brewing, but I do. I understand tuning a deck, what I struggle to comprehend is the (seemingly) prevalent sentiment that a deck MUST be an original idea from start to finish.
January 11, 2023 8:29 p.m.
wallisface says... #10
Gidgetimer i think the idea that a deck can be a completely original idea and still be competent is a thing if the past. Today there’s just soo many online resources available that even if someone is brewing a new deck, they’re going to get references and construction concepts from these various resources - ignoring the swath of existing online data is a mistake 100% of the time.
Also, I think any deck is going to go through a horde of iterations, changes, and tweaks, as a person/people keep playing it and seeing what works and what doesn’t. Conversations are going to happen with others between matches and ideas will form. So even those people ignoring the internet are going to get external feedback/support in some form.
The evolution of any deck is a learning experience and one of incorporating others thoughts that work. I don’t think its realistic to assume there’s any functioning deck is 100% one persons input.
January 11, 2023 8:43 p.m.
wallisface says... #11
Another thought-experiment worth considering - the people i’ve seen on this site least-receptive to constructive feedback on their decks, have also been some of the most wilfully ignorant people on the site.
There’s a cost for trying to enforce pure uniqueness in a deck, and that cost often resembles a head buried in the sand.
I’m not suggesting you fit into that boat at-all, but more just a thought-exercise on what you expect from a 100% unique deck idea
January 11, 2023 8:48 p.m. Edited.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #12
I used to be like this, back when I'd only been playing for a few years. I wanted my deck to be MY deck. I feel like for a lot of players, newer ones especially, deckbuilding is over half the game. It's a form of self-expression. And the options seem nearly limitless. Sometimes it works, especially in more casual groups. I'll never forget the day I Oblivion Ringed my own Barren Glory and followed it up with an Apocalypse. That was the one crowning moment of a weird stupid brew I put together actually winning in a group I almost never won against.
But, times change. It's been 15 years. I've committed to memory nearly every viable card in every non-rotating format and more. Between personal growth and the availability of information in this day, I've had to come to terms with the fact that the options are limited, and anything that can be done has been tried. Even if you come up with the idea yourself, you won't be the first to have tried it. That's just the facts. The entire concept of originality, even outside of MTG, is fallacious in my opinion.
I'm somewhat envious of people who still feel the joy of self-expressive deckbuilding. It's fun. And if you're having fun, you're doing it right.
January 11, 2023 11:18 p.m.
Necrosis24 says... #13
I generally don’t concern myself with the popularity of a commander outside my playgroup. I will avoid building the same commander as someone in my group unless we have different takes. Otherwise I just Opt to play their deck when they aren’t because what’s the point of us both buying the same cardboard? So unless a commander is too strong for my playgroup or too mean that it would not be fun to play against I build whatever I think is fun. I’m more concerned with whether I can bring something new to the playgroup that they would enjoy seeing rather than something new to the entirety of the mtg deck building community.
Gidgetimer although I enjoy playing decks I didn’t build myself (like a friend’s deck), I get the most enjoyment from playing decks I put together because I feel like I put the effort into making it what it is. Albeit, a lot of card choices come from edh rec I ultimately put the puzzle together and connected the dots on card interactions and mapped out the combos. So despite the fact I’m not the first to have come up with the combo or interaction I managed to piece it together myself. Whereas copying and pasting a deck I feel like I didn’t put any effort into card interactions and someone else solved the entire puzzle for me. So it is less about originality for me and more about feeling like I put in the work to call it mine.
January 12, 2023 12:15 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #14
I’m going to try to clarify my prior post, piggybacking a little on what wallisface said. The idea that someone will be mad at you for using a deck that, in one iteration or another, already exists in the internet seems silly... and makes me think the actual problem is something else. If someone whines about a Nekusar deck making people draw a lot of cards, their problem isn’t that you haven’t done something TRULY unique with it... it’s that they don’t like playing against Nekusar. Them not liking Nekusar is more a them problem than a you problem.
January 12, 2023 11:54 a.m.
Last_Laugh says... #15
Gidgetimer My personal way of building a deck is to start from scratch and build my 100. I then check things like edhrec and some lists to see if anything jumps out at me that I missed and add it to my maybeboard. I goldfish for awhile to spot any underperformers and nonbos then make swaps and test some more. I do all this before I buy a single card.
I consider myself an odd man out on this though because I have 9 decks built but they ALL share cards. I separate all the cards I run into piles by artifacts, lands, and each color. When I build something, most of my staples are taken care of so it's usually 20-30ish cards I pick up that're specific to the new commander's strategy. This admittedly makes 'building from scratch' a lot less intimidating but allows me to optimize more decks.
January 12, 2023 12:28 p.m.
To have fun is the most important ! My Idea, your idea, everbody learns from everybody but the most inportant thing is that we share our hobby, we share fun and so on.
January 12, 2023 5:44 p.m.
Thanks for all the opinions and insights, people!
I've been quite busy with my job recently and haven't been able to participate in the discussion, but rest assured I've read everything you have said. I'll try to answer everyone tomorrow or Saturday.
January 12, 2023 8:38 p.m.
It depends on if your question is about netdecking versus popular commander building? Netdecking doesn't usually leave you with enough flex slots to really address putting much of your own stamp on the deck. But, building with a popular commander usually allows for some personal stamp. I took Atla Palani, Nest Tender (my most popular commander - EDHrec top 50 I think) & turned her into a dedicated groupslug deck with mostly direct damage themes... It is wildly strong in different ways than the usual shapeshifter/combo Atla decks, also has a crazy-different tempo. I have other decks that are different, like: white-weenie + non-atraxa groupfriends.
I wonder if there are enough sac-based planeswalkers for you to make an unusual Korvold, Fae-Cursed King deck that uses synergistic, but highly unusual, superfriend/sac themes? Then you could have Carth the Lion, Angrath, Zariel, Vraska... Some of the lesser seen representatives.
January 13, 2023 1:22 p.m.
Also, building something like what I mentioned above, could allow you to have some flexibility to play your hand sometimes instead of always needing the Korvold engine online to keep up with the competition. There may be the added benefit of less eyerolls from across the table if you are demonstrating less Korvold-reliance in that way.
January 13, 2023 1:24 p.m.
Left everyone here without any follow-up, but now I have some time and I'll answer as much as I can. Before that, I just wanted to thank everyone who said something. For anxious people, learning how other people deal with things helps a lot. Now, in order of who appears first.
Last_Laugh, I agree with you, but sometimes I feel like I want to have fun in my very particular way.
Also, my problem is not necessarily sharing cards between decks, that's fine. There are cards I even try to avoid putting in a few decks to encourage more creativity while brewing. My problem lies with the idea of the deck itself.
wallisface, you said a lot of stuff, all of them greatly appreciated, but I don't know if I can give an answer to every single one of your points. Still, I'll try my best.
One thing you said is definetly true. Becoming an expert sure pays off and the version of mill I was going for, waaaaaaay before Eldraine, was a super controling one rather than the turbo one. Maybe I'll go back to that. Thanks for a little bit of inspiration!
Funny what you mention about your brewing principles, for I went in a opposite direction to one of your points. I've always hated red and white because those are the colors most often associated with aggro. However, I realized there are a few neat things that can be done with them, besides aggro. The same goes for my favorite color, black, with which I was recently able to make a Monoblack burn which actually feel like it's a ton of fun! Exploring these janky paths has helped me understand a bit more about some strategies and change my opinion on them a bit.
On the subject of jank, this is one of the reasons being "original" is important to me. A lot of jank tends to be tuned down versions of existing decks, basically just being competitive budget. However, I believe people should build budgets decks for fun too that aren't just commander, because, at least here in Brazil, a 60 card deck is cheaper than a commander deck. When you start looking at this, there are so many fun and interesting things you can do. What I'm trying to say is jank is shallow because people don't brew it enough.
Not to extend myself too much, since I want to answer other people too, don't worry about me being to fixated on keeping a deck strictly to what I want. My current Mardu Unearth + Ephemerate deck has been through a big amount of versions, and I don't even remember if I still have white/ephemerate. I've also scrapped many ideas because they didn't work well outside of my head.
FormOverFunction, that's not the point of the post. I'm not worried about other people. I'm worried about my own perception of how I should build decks.
Gidgetimer, I'd say, at least in my case, it's because of my anxiety. When you have GAD, you tend to be very self-conscious and doubt a lot of things. I also believea game such as MTG should be explored and must be a ground for creativity. I don't want to be someone who only uses other people's ideas rather than creating something on my own.
However, reading through this thread, I now believe I should try to be less demanding on myself and just try to build things I enjoy, without thinking too much if it's 100% mine or not.
I know I haven't answered everyone, but I'm a bit tired today and need to rest a bit. I'll finish it tomorrow.
January 13, 2023 7:22 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #21
I've just come to the conclusion magic is super oversaturated and the vast majority of deck builders look for clout/social validation as opposed to true innovation.
My best advice is to brew as soon as something drops. Be the first and put time into testing and improving; a lot of the legwork in magic has already been done by other players - for the most part players know what's good and accepting that and pushing pride aside is the 1st step to making something both effective and interesting.
January 14, 2023 8:05 a.m.
wotanaz1337 says... #22
That's not a dumb question at all, OP.
Let me first say that there are so many cards being printed, so many commanders and possible builds. How do you even keep up. It's really killed off my drive to build because it's analysis-paralysis.
Therefore, I've also kind of been in your boat. You're almost better off net-decking as a causal player these days. Let people who spend all that time and effort help you out. I just want to play the game as something to distract me from life (including my own diagnosed anxiety disorder).
Don't get me wrong, if you find a commander who hits the right buttons for you, then it's worth it. But otherwise, I dunno...I could see the arguments of the format being too same-y as valid...but a lot of decks resemble each other anyway.
January 15, 2023 5:46 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #23
Kazierts, I know this is easier said than done, but it sounds like to me you need to give yourself permission to interact with M:tG as simply a game at some points instead of entirely as an outlet for creativity. If you sometimes want to play a deck that was not an original creation that is a legitimate way to interact with the game as much as is building and playing a deck that is your own creation.
January 16, 2023 6:53 p.m.
TheoryCrafter says... #24
I'm not sure what I can add to this except maybe to say that building MTG decks is like eating Reese's Peanut Butter Cups: There's no wrong way to do so.
January 22, 2023 10:11 p.m.
I took a long time, but I said I was going to answer everyone and here I am.
Tyrant-Thanatos - I think you were spot on with the topic here. Not only do I still have this joy, but I'd say I take it a bit too far. I have to start thinking the same way as you, that 99% of stuff has been experimented with at some point and I shouldn't worry too much about it.
Necrosis24 - I have a similar mindset to yours. However, the people whom I used to play with have basically stopped and the only thing I have is the brewing and playtesting on my own.
Venoctus - Wish I could just feel like this. It would make things a lot easier... but thanks for the kindness :)
Gleeock - What I made with Korvold is a list with only cards that have been printed as commons at least once (some may be banned in pauper, that's why I didn't just say "legal in pauper") and the result seems to be pretty fun. I don't care too much about brewing the best deck, but moreso with building something unique that's also playable. Just look at my Monoblack Infect. Even with the influx of poison cards from the next phyrexian sets, I doubt it'll ever be Tier 1, but as long as it's something mine, I'm fine with it.
RNR_Gaming - While I agree that MTG can be too saturated nowadays, rushing to brew something definetly ain't gonna help, specially considering I already have anxiety.
wotanaz1337 - Thank you for the words. In my case, I don't have this paralysis because MTG is basically my creative outlet. If you see how much I can write in my deck descriptions, you'll understand. Magic is what keeps my creativity running all the time. For example, even excluding EDH, I can already think of at least a dozen decks to build with cards from ONE. My only problem with the amount of stuff pouring out from Wizards is I don't have the time to digest it before new cards come out. I want and need time to enjoy the toys as they come out.
Gidgetimer - My problem is mostly that, allowing myself to experience things. I have plenty of ideas, but I can be too demanding on myself when it comes to expressing them.
I appreciate everyone who took some time to leave a message. It helps me a lot and gives me a lot of things to think about.
Last_Laugh says... #2
Do you enjoy playing and your game experience with what you build? And did everyone else have a good time? To me, those really are the only questions.
January 11, 2023 12:52 a.m.