Asking for Help: A Quick How-To
Deck Help forum
Posted on Oct. 1, 2019, 7:23 a.m. by enpc
If you have ever been wondering about asking for deck help but not knowing how, then this is a quick guide to structuring your deck help questions:
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Post in the Correct Place: If you're asking a question about a specific format (or a deck for a format), or you have a rules question then ensure that you post them in the appropriate forum. PLEASE NOTE: This is not the correct location to ask random questions about a card, deck or specific feature of Tapped Out.
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Be Concise: Clearly ask your question and avoid rambling on with irrelevant information or going off on tangents.
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Provide Context: Being concise and providing context are not actually opposites, but instead should go hand in hand. Provide some information about the "Why" of the question, however still adhere to point 2. You also don't wan't to be too specific as to box answers in. Sometimes the answers out of left field are some of the most helpful.
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Provide Links: If you're asking about a card or a deck, actually provide a link to them. If you don't know how to do this, then please read the Formatting Tips. And copy/pasting the URL as plaintext will NOT just magically convert it to a hyperlink. Don't do this. It's selfish - remember that you're asking other people for help.
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Grammar and Punctuation: This is super important. While this doesn't have to be perfect, basic grammar and punctiuation can make the difference between something being readable and not. And if nothing else, remember to use full stops/periods/whatever name you use for them. Also, You're and Your - this one is just a pet peeve of mine.
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Be Polite: Please and thank you will get you a long way. Again, you're asking people for help here which means that you're asking people to give up their time to provide you with an answer. Also, don't be demanding in your question. Headings like "URGENT" means that you should have asked the question a week ago.
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Don't ask lots of questions at once: Asking lots of questions can be tiring to those trying to answer and it often leads to a huge wall of text, which in turn just becomes a TL;DR
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Don't be Quirky: Avoid lots of Anecdotes, pop-culture references and witty side comments. One or two is ok, but being random generally doesn't translate well, especially over text. On top of that, keep references fairly mainstream. The more people have seen it, the more relatable it will be. For example, making a reference to a well known Simpsons quote will generally result in a lot more of "I understood that reference" than some random anime.
And remember, there's a chat window directly below the question you're asking, so that's where all of that back-and-forth stuff and further elaborations should live. But your question should be well defined and to the point.
Hopefully this will provide some help to people who don't have their voice yet. And if you have any further questions, here is a great place to ask.
Cheers,
Oh man...
Quite a guide indeed. I really wish I could remember all this; both Caerwyn & enpc's parts of this definitive guide...
I'm trying to input as much as possible from the both of you. You guys really did a great job on this.
For now, I'm seriously trying all I can to absorb all this.
In fact, I'm trying to make my personal template for such topics; but it wont be easy; What exactly to do to revise everything?
I seriously need to calm down. This is a lot to put in my head.
Particularly you two; I already know I've done quite some wrongs here. I think it's time as of this post I change all that...
Thank you so much for this, enpc; hell, even Caerwyn even got some ideas that are also good. I wonder how I can even gain even miniscule redemption though...
October 1, 2019 12:39 p.m.
LordBlackblade says... #4
I wish I could upvote this and Caerwyn’s addendum into oblivion! This should be made into a sticky somewhere!
October 1, 2019 3:11 p.m.
LordBlackblade: I've sticky'd it under the general "Deck Help" forum for now.
BMHKain: While you were one of the culprits, I have seen quite a few other posts which was enough of a driver to put something like this together. I think the main take-away for you it to remember to just ask a question. Just because you can have a lot of text in a forum topic doesn't mean that you should.
As I've said before, if you want to vent, rant, express yourself or just spew ideas out into a public space, that's fine - however this isn't the right place to do them. There's the Blind Eternities section of the forum, however even this is probably not the best place. Seriously, I would recommend making some sort of blog.
October 1, 2019 5:40 p.m.
@enpc & Caerwyn: Well, outside of cEDH Boros, I tried to revise what I wanted to ask. Although the Topic Name Changes might be odd also. I'm planning a 3rd after this, but based on what changes I made for the latter 2 threads, even after the removal of the EX/EXTRA Sections indefinitely, I just wonder if I made any improvements. If so, I think I might know what to do after the fact...
Otherwise, I have no idea what to improve; this is as good as I can do.
...
Well, I really appreciate the guide, guys. But I ponder how to do the following threads better...
Ironically, I plan to put in some infinite combos while still being Tribal Friendly... XP
What did I do wrong before? It's not like I posted the Hyperlinks to swarm this area; I just want to know if I even stepped up; if at all...
Thanks so much, guys. I just wish I was told at least something about what I did to defile both Adddendums ; wait, does my meek personality about my card choices count as part of The Latter Listing's Part 2 of the guide's Rule 2?
I'll talk later. I just wanted to prove something...
October 2, 2019 11:39 a.m.
WARNING: This is NOT TL;DR Material. I just wanted to confess, that's all.
11 Days later, My post directly above this one has 2 things outdated; but this is off-sync knowledge. Well, it's time for me to weigh in on my own sins...
After trying all I can to follow some rulings, it got SO awful so fast, & the amount lasting thus far has no end in sight. This'll be a long one; this will be a warning for those who bore too easily. First, Let's talk about enpc's behalf of the Addendums .
1st off: Rule 1: Be concise is broken. I try to the best of my abilities to be as simple to the point as possible; HOWEVER! I also have to add important to note info just to get a bigger grasp on; that, & out of all well known sources of Media ever; Dante's Divine Comedy seems to be the one thing anyone here is familiar with. But that's not saying much! I still know so many sources nobody else here even knows; Anime, or not. The problem is my intellect doesn't elicit Jealousy, but worse. For questions: I guess I'll have to watch what I type...
Rule 2: Is adding that much context that CAN help WRONG? What is your usual limit for appropriate context? I'm lowballing this, & saying "Just 1 sentence." as a direct guess. I apologize if that sounded very rude as w/ the whole post...
Rule 4: You see, this is where my Direct Point of Imperfection comes in. I make typos all the damn time; maybe it's my PC rotting my brain. Maybe it's WotC not taking a true chance on non-conformity! Where's our Real-World Guns? Where are Elves opposing all natural concept, & using technology? Hell, it's not like WotC is promoting Gun Violence; they've done worse already; & all of it is Magic.
Simply put; DO NOT see this as a TURNOFF. We all had that problem as children anyway; some, more than others... (SPOILER: I was one of them; even though such programs to make me learn as if I was a freak; & not Asperger's like now. What happened, QUANTUM LEAP!)
Rule 5: I was upset at someone so much, this could've had actually happened. I barely was able to find a good post at the time; revising crap No less than 7 times; yep, it was a damn Guilt Trip for me, & if you comment that Guilt Trips "Suck" in any form of grammar, well, moving on: I was just doing my own thing. That's wrong now?
Rule 6: What is the strict Max amount of questions that deserve something to prove? What BY ALL MEASS is TL;DR? Wait, let me Google this so I can enshame you all.
(Click Clack Moo. Not Available as you're searching on the Arpanet, or the Intranet.)
The internet says "Too Long; Didn't Read." Hmph! Well, someone told me to do only 200 characters MAX. How to fit the OP Line, 3 Questions, assuming that's the legal limit, & an Ending note? Bonus Points if you also include the NOTICE BEFORE QUESTION part in same 200 Unicode text.
Answer: You can't! Sometimes it might be more worth the cause to explain what one needs; for me: QUITE a lot, & NO RETALIATING.
Rule 7: It's surprising anyone is interested in my head in spite of knowing nothing of it. Truth? I HATE The Simpsons. I already did a minor reference to a great TV series known as QUANTUM LEAP. Ironically I use the "Click Clack Moo" reference as Loading Screen Emulation. It is a reference to the Children's Book "Click, Clack, Moo Cows that Type" written by Doreen Cronin, & even has critical acclaim; but only I know this reference here. Also, even Pokémon has a welcome place in Pop-Culture (Same for Digimon.). While everyone seems more versed to the Crap EN Dub of Pokémon, Anime-Wise, the JP Origin is what it should've been. Blame 4KIDS for an awful dub that kept getting worse even now. Maybe it's wise to watch the JP Dub to get a true reality check about the Anime?
That's as far as I can reach for known material the typical user here would know. The clarification of the original JP Version of "Pocket Monster" is stressful enough. Learning what you missed for 22 years, & we now have a new Protag? I hope he does some awesome things; The Galar region is stated to be an AWFUL Place to live...
Alright. Now to focus on Caerwyn's Supplemental Rulings:
Rule 1: While my temperament can be controlled, you already stated my Primary Mana Color is ; basically a Male Chandra. BUT, there was one thing unwritten. When someone snaps. Yep. IRL, I trigger ALOT. & I do this to prove a point; that everyone intentionally ignores. It's like I am nonexistent when I want my opinion across.
Rule 2: If this is about my Superfriends Deck still WIP, I am offended as well as Meek. "Why did you put Rowan Kenrith in this deck?" "Why put the Composite Golem + Nim Deathmantle combo in all your 5 Color Decks? Same for Happily Ever After ?" "Why do you not realize that Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast , Rowan Kenrith , & Saheeli, Sublime Artificer are all AWFUL in Superfriends?!"
Answer: I already have an Engine for Wrenn and Six , & plan to add Oko, Thief of Crowns also. I'm trying to choose one of those three for Mass Artifice use. Problem? Nobody cares about a Defending Token, unless you're Teyo, the Shieldmage which means you have Hexproof also. There are ways to make sure only one Creature your opponents control can Attack or Block. Dueling Grounds , & (Unless you run Humility .) Silent Arbiter . But there are better options; since the player & their Walker army are now different choices to attack. I'm now trying to optimize my Superfriends deck so my creatures DON'T have to fear Humility & I can find a 2 card combo similar to Composite Golem + Nim Deathmantle . Yep, creatures are packing their bags as they find another place to go. I'd like some help, but that's for another time. Heck, Saheeli, Sublime Artificer might be better as a result; emulating Artifice as noncreature Tokens.
The question now is: When will I make a Creatureless Superfriends deck after so long? Cutting Happily Ever After though...
Rule 4: I try to learn (& remember) such advice; but, bottom line, my mind is on a Creatureless Superfriends Deck; a true Herculean Feat never done right. But when so many disprove my efforts to do things my way & why, I better be able to agree with at least someone. Absolute Fail if Caerwyn's Rule 2 does nothing at all. Are my counterpoints that sucky?
Rule 5: I recently started a folder for non-cEDH Commander Decks worth using. After getting what Sun's Champion had; I actually had nowhere to search; (I'd rather conventional CMDRs anyway), because the amount for even one card in a deck is included in OVER 5-Digit INSANITY. Nobody can search that well in, say, 5 MINUTES. Let's say, for instance, a CMDR Deck w/ a Conventional Commander had say, 1000 Decks on avg., per se. THAT'S ALOT TO GO THROUGH! Maybe someone from the Senior Staff can help on this? I can't resume w/o a better way to search for other Decks.
&...
That's it, sadly. I didn't come here to rant or complain at all in the first place. All I ask is to know everything I'm flawed at (Albeit Improvable, or not.), & how to help against my biggest enemy: My Ego, SuperEgo, & Id; all Sigmund Freud crap. Basically, I already have one choice I did wrong:
A: Trying too hard.
After that, I'm literally in a void. Why did I say so much on this post? I'm literally at the point of being reduced to begging for answers. This post is LONG as crap on purpose; but I didn't post this so I get no APPROPRIATE Response, or TL;DR Trash. I posted this so I could get some answers. Was I rambling? Yes. But that too is also an important part of this post as there is some logic ignored by everyone on purpose. Before I end this Post, I'll try & find what went wrong & improve it.
(But, WOW. This is my biggest Text Wall ever... X/)
October 13, 2019 7:21 p.m.
I'm going to have to make an update to enpc, & Caerwyn on my previous post directly above.
I'm trying to do all I can to be a better user; but while I was asleep last night EST., the very guilt was eating me alive in my sleep.
So, yes. I apologize 1000 times for such a HUGE post above. I just wanted to state everything I DID wrong; and even more than that.
But what I truly have a right to know is: How the heck can I improve on all these, maybe even more than that? I just wish I had a solution to all these; I actually plan to do another Deck Help Thread for my Tuvasa the Sunlit deck later; while also trying to make a Creatureless Superfriends Deck YET AGAN. All shameless-Self Promoting aside, I just want even a list for what I did improperly even to the Present Day, please. That said, the Huge Post I apologize for? Just read it. It basically shows my limits, my weaknesses, basically why I'd rather be a Renegade Willfully siding with the Consuls; now was there ever one who fought FOR the future Renegades' rights? Hmph. Interesting Question. Mark Rosewater with NO Answer... XL
October 14, 2019 2 p.m.
BMHKain - I am not sure what else can be said other than the suggestions posted above. With all due respect, I think you are overthinking this some, and hijacking the thread to discuss your own issues, rather than allowing it to exist as a nifty little guide.
To offer you words of encouragement--you clearly know how to make posts that follow what is outlined herein. Your most recent threads have done a fairly good job at adhering to these suggestions, though, you should stop asking what is tantamount to "how am I doing now?" since that does not add anything.
You don't really need any help - what you need is to keep your current positive momentum going for a while. As I am sure you know, you have a bit of a reputation for being difficult. But, overall TappedOut is a pretty wonderful, forgiving little community. It might take a bit to improve your reputation, but you'll get there eventually. All that is going to hold you back is if you keep focusing on the past, to the detriment of the future.
October 14, 2019 2:31 p.m.
megamon575 says... #10
ok so I'm trying to build a deck and want to include Stomping Ground and other lands that are the same just different colors and am trying to find fetch land cards that will search for all the lands that are similar to this they all include land types in the card I'm running an all color deck too
December 22, 2019 6:19 a.m.
megamon575 - This thread is not really the place to ask for advice. I'll respond to your question on your profile.
December 23, 2019 1:15 p.m.
Sultai_Sir says... #12
This is a great guide! I do have one question, though. Does anyone know where to post questions about TappedOut code? I'm trying to get background images on my decks and it isn't working, and I didn't know where to post my question.
June 8, 2020 7:39 a.m.
Sultai_Sir: There is a Coding Forum, however it is only available to upgraded users. If you want to get some assistance on HTML realted stuff, there is the best palce to ask. And upgardiong your account is good for TappedOut, it helps keep the site up and running.
June 8, 2020 8:53 a.m.
I've noticed an issue the past few days. When I playtest a deck, most of the cards have a blank, black face. This never happened before, and I'm wondering if it's happening for anyone else (and how we can fix it).
June 19, 2020 10:27 a.m.
Jurrassic_Couch says... #16
I need help. My decks don't show up when i go to my folders, as if they were all deleted.
June 30, 2020 12:51 a.m.
an etb effect creates tokens....with the triggered off yarok, the desecrated it doubles then with doubling season does it double again? Or rather I hope it's ok if I ponder another thought on this like if I choose to even trigger the ability again a few time I'm pretty sure i have to add it to the stack before doubling season triggers right?( sorry i really am bad at grammar and I do apologies if it hurts)
January 24, 2021 6:55 p.m.
Nathan862: This is not a place to randomly post Rules Q&A stuff. If you have a rules question, please post it there.
January 24, 2021 6:59 p.m.
I honestly cant get passed the tutorial....I did explain how bad I was with grammer,honestly I'm not lying and not trying to step on anyone's toes with that just I am illiterate
January 24, 2021 7:06 p.m.
Besides I thought this was asking about deck help....I needed to know for my yarok deck honestly I needed to know if it was worth putting it in
January 24, 2021 7:08 p.m.
Nathan862: I appreciate that you're looking for help with a deck, however the purpose of this thread is to help people when they create their own thread to ask for help (since I have seen a lot of really poor requests for help in the past).
There are two things going on here: 1) you want help to know if an ETB works the way you think it does, and 2) you are asking for help building your Yarok deck.
Looking at your user account however, you don't have any decklists, which would make me think that you primarily want to know about the rules interaction so that you can make the decisison about adding the card or not yourself, rahter than asking for general help on the deck (since you should post a decklist if you want help on a deck).
This is why I was redirecting you to the Rules Q&A page, where your question actually belongs. And it's a perfectly fine question to ask, however as pointed out, you should be asking the question in the correct forum. Grammar issues aside (and I'm not faulting you on that - I understand that there are many different reasons that people can struggle with grammar) though, if you're asking about a specific rules interaction on hte wrong thread and somebody (especially in this case the thread creator) redirects you to the correct place to ask the question, then continuing to push the issue seems a bit silly.
The point of this thread is not some magical catch all for every question that every user has - the point of this thread is to help equip people who might otherwise struggle to ask a question with some tools so that they can feel more confident in asking. We already have a bunch of differnt forums where poeple can (and do) ask for all kinds of help with their decks. For example, the commander deck help section is right here.
I understand that you have grammar and literacy issues, however it is important that you who are asking the question are still putting in the leg work.
January 24, 2021 7:46 p.m.
I understand I'm sorry for the trouble honestly didnt mean to cause I'm still new to the app and the reason for no deck lists is that I just recently found this my cards are in another state right now I was looking for good ideas to put in the deck honestly the question I stated definitely was in the wrong spot at this point I do understand that I'll try better in the future and I'll add my deck lists when I'm able to in about another month after I move honestly have about 18 decks to poste gonna take me some time but after this message I'll stop sending here sorry for the inconvenience
January 24, 2021 9:25 p.m.
Nathan862: All good, no stress. The best thing you can do is have a bit of a browse through the forums and in the Rules Q&A section to get a bit fo a lay of the land. And by all means, don't be afraid to ask questions - people will generally be willing to help out.
Caerwyn says... #2
This is a good list, though I wanted to add a few points regarding responding to the feedback you solicited, since I think that is just as important as making sure you have a clear, easy-to-understand opening post.
Be Respectful in your Responses: Remember, this is a community forum, so both the quality of the advice you receive, and the temperament of those who are providing it can be rather variable. It is important to remember that the person responding to your inquiry took time out of their own schedule to try and provide you help--even if you do not think it was the most helpful feedback, you should still be polite. Likewise, if someone gave you extremely good advice, try not to pester them with too many follow-up questions, and respect the fact that they're probably busy, and cannot always provide additional feedback.
Don't be Afraid to Stand up for your Own Thoughts: Sometimes you will get bad feedback, or feedback that misses some critical piece of information (likely because the other person is not intimately familiar with your deck). You should, by all means, explain why a card is or is not included if you have a strong justification--just remember to do so in a polite, respectful, and non-condescending way.
Don't Feed the Trolls: Though TappedOut is a whole lot better than most corners of the internet, we do sometimes have a few individuals lurking about who are rude or otherwise prone to starting arguments. Unfortunately, they tend to lurk around suggestions threads and deck feedback, so they can pick at more inexperienced players who they see as easy prey. Generally, it is a good idea to simply ignore posts that come off as intentionally malicious. Sometimes, however, it can be difficult to distinguish between negative criticism (which is a good, healthy part of any feedback) and trolling. In such a case, where you are not sure, respond once, in a respectful, polite manner. If they continue to be rude, at that point disengage and ignore.
Learn from the Feedback: One of the most frustrating things when providing deck help is when the same person comes back asking very similar questions for a different, but adjacent (i.e. same colors or same format) deck. While each deck is different, there are still going to be significant card overlaps, and a large number of similarities in deck-building theory (i.e. ramp, removal, playable average CMC, etc.).
Use the Playtest Feature on this Site: This site has a nifty little tool simulating an actual game. Incorporate the feedback you get from players, then playtest the revised deck against other decks common for your particular meta. This means finding similar decks on this site (there are thousands, so that's usually not too hard), then playing both sides of the game. This can be time consuming, and the lack of another player can harm the data collection some, but it does provide a good baseline for evaluating feedback and seeing what else needs to be done to improve your deck.
October 1, 2019 9:49 a.m.