What is the best card to end the game with using unlimited colorless mana?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Dec. 14, 2020, 7:42 p.m. by StopShot
I like coming up with infinite combos and sometimes I wind up with an infinite combo that makes endless colorless mana. I want to know what card is best for sinking all that mana into? While I'm aware that I can use a card like Gemstone Array to make infinite colored mana or I could use a card like Staff of Domination to draw multiple cards, I instead want one card along with my infinite colorless mana and limited color mana to close out the game by doing any of the following:
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-Dealing infinite damage to all opponents.
-Causing infinite life loss to all opponents.
-Creating infinite creature tokens with haste.
-Forcing all opponents to draw out their decks.
-Exiling all opponents' libraries.
-Forcing all opponents into a "lose the game" condition.
-Meeting a "win the game" condition.
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I don't consider traditional mill to be a viable way to consistently win the game. Creating infinite tokens without haste I also view as not consistent enough as it gives each opponent the chance to react. Furthermore, infinite life gain isn't viable as commander damage exists.
Of course, without a doubt, Walking Ballista is the clear favorite solution to win the game being able to fit in any deck given its colorless color identity. That being said, I made this thread wanting to know what secondary back-ups would be an apt replacement for Walking Ballista if by some chance it is countered or exiled.
Here are some cards I came up with that work, but I'd like to know from others if I missed any that could do better than these: Aurelia's Fury,, Bloodrite Invoker,, Cogwork Assembler,, Comet Storm,, Conflagrate,, Cut / Ribbons,, Debt to the Deathless,, Dimensional Infiltrator,, Essence Depleter,, Exsanguinate,, Fanning the Flames,, Fireball,, Firecat Blitz,, Goblin Cannon,, Goblin Festival,, Helix Pinnacle,, Oona, Queen of the Fae,, Rolling Thunder,, Tempt with Vengeance,, Torment of Hailfire and Valakut Invoker.
I didn't include any cards that could possibly turn the game into a draw, but I'm still looking for more cards that suit the criteria I've put out.
On an academic level, I enjoy Urza, Lord High Artificer. You can exile your library, including all your counterspells, and then have a protected Oracle or Maniac to cast. You also have the advantage of turning a bunch of cards you might already be playing into mana rocks, making it easier to assemble something like Scepter + Reversal. Practically, it has significant problems--that is way too much shuffling to be particularly entertaining.
Of the cards you listed, Torment of Hailfire is probably the best--it can both win you the game when you have infinite mana, and deal a devastating blow to your opponents if you have significant, but not infinite, mana.
December 14, 2020 8:06 p.m. Edited.
If we're talking about colourless mana sinks, Thrasios, Triton Hero is probably one of the best. once yu have infinite mana, you have access to your deck which means you can do whatever you want from there. That way you can get access to mana converters if required and assemble any required win condition from there. The other benefit of this is that having a mana sink in the command zone means that it's one less piece you have to fish up.
As for infinite mana sinks to actually end games, damage/loss of life are good ones. Generally with Damage, it means you can get rid of creatures too which may be stopping you from winning. Oona is also good (though less good if not your commander) since she does work outside of combo but also permanently removes resouces.
The issue with letting your opponent draw cards is that potentially you're giving them resources before winning. So you need to make sure that your can either force them to draw at instant speed, or you force them to draw all in one big hit (think Blue Sun's Zenith).
As Caerwyn stated, you typcially also want a card that does soemthing outside of combo. Valakut Invoker is an ok infinite mana sink, but is pretty crap outside of that. 8 mana for a Lightning Bolt is a bit steep.
December 14, 2020 8:56 p.m.
Banefire is one of the best, if X is = or >5, then Banefire cannot be countered and the damage cannot be prevented. Very sneaky and even in casual Commander with all kinds of fort and protection cards in play it can still get a win.
Death Cloud: Honorable mention. Go infinite, Cast it with X of 10000, say "I lost as well, but what a great finisher!"
Death Grasp: You gain as they lose.
Rocket Launcher: Like Goblin Festival or Goblin Cannon.
Molten Disaster: If Kicked it has split second. Very hard to disrupt. But you need support to live through it.
Demonfire: With no cards in hand, it's just like Banefire.
Diabolic Revelation: It lets you get all of your other x cards so you can win with all of them at the same time.
Mindshrieker: This is an odd one, and it's mill, but it gets a +x/+x boost and you can activate it for lethal as well as milling the entire table. It can also win without going infinite if you land on something spicy on an activation.
Golem Artisan: It needs a number of artifact creatures in play equal to your # of opponents, but it cnm grant +X/+X flying, trample and haste to x number of artifact creatures. This can be a game winning blowout very easily.
December 15, 2020 1:11 a.m.
Minds Aglow would be my choice
doesn't meet the one card requirement but Eldrazi Displacer + any etb would get the job done
Some Examples: Goblin Chainwhirler,Ayara, First of Locthwain,Thopter Engineer,Thought-Knot Seer,Gilded Drake
December 15, 2020 12:23 p.m.
Expansion / Explosion
damage out 2 players, draw out 2 players
December 15, 2020 12:28 p.m. Edited.
RambIe - I am not sure where you are getting 2 and 2 from; Expansion / Explosion only allows you to damage out one player and draw out a second player. It's also incredibly mana/color intensive, making it vastly worse than any number of cards that cause "each opponent" to take damage or lose life.
December 15, 2020 1:38 p.m.
@Caerwyn
honest awnser...
i chat in tapped out forums in a tab window while at work
i originally put Comet Storm but after posting i realized it was already listed
so in haste i edited the first thing i could think of before the boss came back.
December 15, 2020 1:56 p.m.
@Caerwyn continued
thats also why i often post 2 or 3 times instead of just once
mid typing i have to stop and sometimes cant get back for 10+ mins
but you are correct 2 red and 2 blue is way to color intense to be useful in a infinite colorless, and the cmc would always be more then 4 while its on the stack so it cant be copied
but ill still chose it over a card already listed
because theirs just to many people in these forums ready to jump on you the moment you say the wrong thing
December 15, 2020 2:17 p.m.
RambIe - Just in case there's any rules confusion, the greater than 4 CMC is not the problem; you can't copy Explosion with Expansion. You could not cast both at the same time (they don't have fuse, so you can only cast one half or the other) and, even if you could, fuse combines the cards into a single spell and spells cannot target themselves.
I wasn't trying to jump on you for saying the wrong thing--I just wanted to be sure everyone understood the rules since split cards can be kind of confusing!
December 15, 2020 2:44 p.m.
@Caerwyn
your enjoying this :)
yes you are correct again
only one side can be declared,
it does not have fuse even if it did it could not target itself,
it does not have aftermath even if it did it would not be a legal target
it is not color efficient
it only removes up to 2 people from the game
it was a poor choice and my post may have caused someone confusion about the rules
lmao
also my comment about being jumped on was not directed at you
nor was it excluding you, its kinda half the fun of these forums
and i myself do it.
December 15, 2020 3:36 p.m.
p.s. its kinda a battle of the wits thing, its not done as trolling
just so theirs no confusion
December 15, 2020 3:40 p.m.
There are multiple spells to mill/draw out your opponents once you have infinite mana.
Minds Aglow (which someone also mentioned above)
December 15, 2020 4:31 p.m.
o before i forget
Caerwyn "that is way too much shuffling to be particularly entertaining"
useful info
The rulings for Mind's Desire are applied to Urza, Lord High Artificer
so if you have multiple activation's of Urza, Lord High Artificer
you may shortcut by shuffling once then revealing off the top
as long as there are no actions taken that would reveal the card order to any player
December 15, 2020 6:06 p.m.
@RambIe; Cogwork Assembler is another good artifact way to win. Good choice!
What I like about the assembler is that it's got value even without going infinite. Given, the activation cost is high, but there are many artifacts you could be targeting that provide profound game state changes when abused with the assembler. And it can always just target itself so the least you would get is infinite hasted 2/3s.
December 15, 2020 8:31 p.m.
DoomNoodle says... #23
Retrofitter Foundry make a massive thopter army!!!!
December 15, 2020 11:06 p.m.
@Ramble I completely missed Cogwork Assembler. Thank you for suggesting it. Given I'm compiling cards that fit my criteria I'll be adding it to my initial post for easier future reference if you don't mind.
December 16, 2020 12:14 a.m.
Tomahawk-Bang says... #25
Get some style points for oldschool kills with Rocket Launcher.
December 16, 2020 1:33 p.m.
if you have a death- or etb trigger effect, i'd say Batterskull on its own. Pay 5 to play it, attach a germ to it. pay 3 to bounce it, death trigger. But only if you have anything to get value out of.
Omniscience_is_life says... #2
Jaya's Immolating Inferno?
December 14, 2020 7:57 p.m.